Planetshakers Insider

Musings on Life, the Christian Journey and being a part of Planetshakers City Church

Mike Guglielmucci – Hillsong’s Brian Houston Comments

with 26 comments

Came across these links and wanted to post them up:

Raw footage of Danny Guglielmucci speaking to journalists outside Edge Church

Hillsong’s Brian Houston’s Response

Also, check out the Today Tonight interview with Mike Guglielmucci

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26 Responses

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  1. I used to go to planetshakers church in Melbourne and if Russell actually takes any notice of any of this it will be a complete miracle. More than likely he will get up and preach next week and talk about the people writing on websites causing all this disunity. Then he’ll disappear with his head honchos around the corner and sit upstairs partaking in a fruit platter that his plebs have prepared for him!
    Most often, when i was at church, Russell would never be talking with his people, (like the normal, everyday people) if he was ever talking to anyone they would either be the rich, powerful business people or someone that he identified as being of some service to him and his future. The guy is full of shit and to be honest if he hadn’t been so busy blowing sunshine up Mike’s ass he might have noticed that Mike’s behaviour didn’t add up, “a lot of the time”. Heaps of people noticed things but would never have said anything because quite honestly they would’ve been shot down in flames!
    I hope Russell and Sam take a good hard look at themselves and this pop star/hype church they have created. And speaking of Sam, she needs to get some paint stripper, peal of all that make up and go sit herself in a ditch with some homeless people somewhere and maybe get a reality of who Jesus actually is and what he died on a cross for.

    overit

    August 28, 2008 at 4:59 pm

  2. No, definitely not. Russell is a good man. Have you actually met the man himself? He seems to be perceived as such a humble man. He came to my church and spoke to everyone.
    I have even met him myself.

    He seems to be one of the only genuine leaders around the place. I really respect this man.

    Though I agree with you, I wonder how oblivious they were? They should have recognized weird behaviour. Brian Houston should tell us what he does with his money.

    Mikki

    August 28, 2008 at 10:49 pm

  3. having known Russell personally for the last twenty years I can tell you that the guy is an opportunist. He uses people. When they dont have anything he can use he dumps them. Same as Mike has been dumped from the website reviews of the Planet shakers albums.

    He cant preach to save his life – The only reason young people flock to that church is because Russell has taken advantage of the current psyche in Australia for celebrity. Young people want to belong to something bigger than themselves. Russell has used that desperate cry to his advantage. Plus – Young people (at least the ones from mid class) are stacked with disposable income, enthusiasm and drive)

    Kids, do yourself a favor. Avoid an empty life of following guys like Russel and Mike Goog and get yourself to university or college. Dont be duped by this guy who is riding the coat tails of his Father and Grandfather. Russell is not Tommy Evans’ bootlace when it comes to men of God.

    To Mikki, you have no idea what this guy is capable of. Take away the gloss and smoke and the not so great power chords and songs and you have a pseudo revivalist who isnt affecting anything or anyone.

    Doesnt mean that Russ is not a person without drive. He has that and you need to pay him his dues there. But he built Planet shakers on the shoulders of South Australian endeavour. When SA could no longer serve him and give him what HE wanted he moved on.

    Any other guy of integrity would have gone to a small country town or somewhere else where there is great need.

    But no – Russell goes to the heart of Melbourne where ther is a glut of Pente churches and builds his church on transfer growth. So much so that there are AOG Pastors in Melbourne who are ropable that he moved in without consultation and asked there young people to be faithful. BUt what did these seekers of Celebrity do? Abandoned their churches in droves and moved to where the latest buzz was.

    Not only that, but Russell took key members of SA churches with him. Yes, thjose who he already had a relationship with but…people with skills like musos and sound engineers. Did he take any bible teachers? Did he take any qualified counsellors to deal witt the hurting? No – just musos, sound guys and sycophants.

    When you build on that foundation, you are bound to ignore the voice of the Lord and lack discernment. The Mike Goog saga was already set in place. The fall was inevitable.

    Also MIkki – what the hell do you wanna know about Brians money for? It’s out there in public – THe harley, the properties, the trips overseas. It is unashamedly a prosperity doctrine. The same lack of discernment that Russell had Brian had and it led to the Pat Mesiti fiasco.

    Get the foundation right and you’ll avoid all this crap.

    I am no fan of Tanya Levin. Her book “glass houses” was not an insiders look at Hillsong, it was a poorly constructed whinge fest that focussed on specific targets without addressing the core of the problem. Tanya has written off pentecostalism.

    BUt what she did have right was Hillsongs attitude to the poor and needy. The working class, addicts, Aboriginals – these are great for Hillsong photo ops – and to put in the national ACC magazine every now and then.

    Russell is not as slick an operator as Brian. But give him a few years and we will see him elevated to the status of a major player. I couldnt believe it when they began introducing him as a ‘General’ in gods army. I’ve seen this guy, great man of faith, leap a fence like a hurdler because of a barking dog. It was absolutely hilarious. anyway, now I’m getting too personal.

    Message to Russ – pull your head out and look around at what your building. Is it Gods KIngdom or yours?

    Who are you really impacting? Have Melbournes poor been impacted, the homeless? or are they still out in the freezing cold while you guys pay multiple thousands for the lates sound gear?

    I will sign off with great anticipation in awaiting the book version of MIke Googs struggle. Any good title suggestions guys

    T

    Tomm

    September 7, 2008 at 10:45 pm

  4. “Russell is not as slick an operator as Brian. But give him a few years and we will see him elevated to the status of a major player. I couldnt believe it when they began introducing him as a ‘General’ in gods army. I’ve seen this guy, great man of faith, leap a fence like a hurdler because of a barking dog. It was absolutely hilarious. anyway, now I’m getting too personal.”

    What does being a general in god’s army have to do with the story you’re using as an example? Trying to put aside my personal feelings and how i want to respond, i believe these churches (shakers and hillsong) work hard to serve the poor and needy in society.. and before you criticise them what are you doing to serve this section of the community?

    Sometimes i think we’re so quick to criticise (and i include myself in this) but these people do amazing things for Gods kingdom and i have seen countless people impacted and changed dramatically by God’s power working through these people.

    Daniel

    September 23, 2008 at 6:13 pm

  5. It seems that we could get into a heated, emotional debate here without referring to any facts – so if this is to continue, let’s bring out some specifics…

    How are people specifically being impacted and changed dramatically by God’s power working through Ps Russell Evans and Planetshakers City Church? What are some specifics? Tell us the story of what has happened.

    And, how are these people missing and falling short of their ability to impact and chance people dramatically?

    Planetshakers Insider

    September 24, 2008 at 2:32 am

  6. My gosh.

    Funny how this kind of stuff is always directed to the big churches.

    Don’t take into account the lives saved each week, the food hampers being delivered, the breakthrough in peoples individual lives, the homeless and needy being fed and ministered to, the thousands of lives that have been impacted for the better by Planetshakers and Hillsong and CCC and anything else considered to be a “Mega Church”.

    Don’t take into account the countless hours put in by staff and leaders to see things happen and come to pass.

    Flip. Any wonder no one wants to join churches when there is slander going around like I have just read on this blog.

    Let’s concentrate on building his kingdom. We’re not all called to Planetshakers, same as we’re not all called to a tiny anglican church in the outback. We’re all different and are called to different churches. Rather than bag them and rip shreds off them, maybe use this energy on serving into the church you are called into.

    TJ

    October 8, 2008 at 6:02 pm

  7. TJ,

    It’s important to recognize the good that big churches do – which is why it’s also important to make sure they do as much good as possible, and hold them accountable as shepherds for some of the largest flocks.

    When you mention breakthroughs in peoples lives – a key issue with Planetshakers is a lack of pastoral care, which means many people miss out on achieving the breakthroughs and depth of faith that they could have.

    Instead, the sole focus is on growing the church.

    To be fair, food hampers are not delivered, and homeless are not fed or ministered to as part of Planetshakers ministries.

    Planetshakers will continue to grow – and it’s great – but it will grow in numbers, not quality of relationships with Jesus, and not in impacting the needy – unless something changes.

    There are a few people who have spoken negatively about certain churches here – but for the most part that’s not what’s happening here. It’s simply discussion around church culture – sadly, something that some Christians with weaker faith will automatically accuse of being “anti-church”.

    PSI

    Planetshakers Insider

    October 8, 2008 at 7:07 pm

  8. As a member of Planetshakers I can confirm Food Hampers are delivered and homeless are fed, and quite regularly.

    Make sure your facts are correct before you make statements like that, as I have been involved in actually doing some of the above activities.

    And I also seem to remember Planetshakers recently going into the Collingwood Flats and holding a Family Day and cleaning all the graffiti from all the building.

    And going into Nursing Homes and spending the day with the elderley.

    And going into the Salvation Army in the City and partnering with them on numerous events.

    And the discipleship at Planetshakers is second to none. Never have I experienced such accountability from Leadership within the church – it’s very hard to get away with anything.

    If you had been in a position of leadership there or under the discipleship, i’m sure you would be familiar with this.

    TJ

    October 9, 2008 at 10:44 am

  9. Then pray tell me TJ under ‘such accountability from Leadership within the church-it’s very hard to get away with anything’… please tell me how Pastor Micheal Guglielmucci got away with being addicted to porn for so long, falsifying an illness, and fraud is there two standards, or was it just all turned a blind eye too ???

    You see I have leukemia (which Mike G. said he had at one time along with many other things), and it sickens me to the bottom of my heart that somebody could falsify all the pain, hurt, sadness and sickness I have gone through esp. in a leadership position, and one I had turned to for leadership in my worse times, just essentually to promote the sale of a song he dreamed up.

    I know people that have additions to porn (one of my employees), and they can’t hide it, the quick closing down of windows on the PC, the credit card bills with strange things on them, the funny looks they give to female employee’s, and the sense of insurity you get around them. Please explain how all this slipped through this accountability you talk about, I am curious to know. Truly sick, but blessed.

    HCL

    October 9, 2008 at 5:11 pm

  10. HCL – My heart goes out to you 😦

    I agree with your assessment – and I sincerely hope that God’s holding you close, and letting you know that he’s there in your time of need.

    I will pray for you too.

    Thanks TJ – I wasn’t aware of this (someone else recently posted it too, that it was part of the empowerment centre – and something I wasn’t aware of [although I have been a part of Planetshakers for a long time, I wasn’t part of the E.C.]

    TJ – my experience with Planetshakers is that there are two classes of church members.

    “Class A” are those at the front of the pack, those with spiritual gifting, those with performing talents, those with leadership skills, wealthy business-people, and occasionally Uni students.

    “Class B” include new Christians, people from difficult backgrounds, people who don’t manifest spiritual gifts, people with mental illnesses, people struggling with sin, people struggling with faith, people with problems, people searching for God to fill a hole in their lives – “average” people.

    “Class A” receives the focus, dedication and accountability of leaders – they’re building these people up as the next generation of leaders to grow the church.

    And “Class B” needs to be satisfied with hearing Russell speak on Sundays, and their Urban Life Group leader speak every second Wednesday.

    In most cases, there’s no follow up for these people, no accountability, no teaching, no pastoral care.

    So I’d agree with you that *for some* pastoral care at Planetshakers is great – but for the most needy, so many of them who need Pastoral Care the most, they just don’t get it.

    Their Urban Life Group leaders are too busy, too poorly trained, or aren’t interested enough to impact these people’s lives.

    These are the lambs that the shepherd should be most watchful with, rather than the stronger and more valuable rams.

    Planetshakers Insider

    October 9, 2008 at 11:35 pm

  11. Accountability and Follow Up is something that you have to seek.

    I find that you can’t chase people to keep them accountable, they have to come to you. They have to chase you down to be accountable and get desperate for their own destiny.

    Mike G aside, I’m honestly sick to death of hearing about it. He chose not to be accountable with every area of his life. He chose to disobey God. He chose to mock him. He is responsbile for his actions. Not the church. Not the people around him. When it comes down to it at Judgement Day, He can’t blame the church for not chasing him down to be accountable. He is responsible.

    You personally may have had a bad experience with an Urban Life Leader, but that doesn’t mean they are all bad and all poorly trained.

    Some have such incredible training and are absolutely incredible leaders. They carry the anointing and have all the time in the world for the people under their care.

    You will find that these leaders have groups that just keep growing, and then splitting and growing again.

    In regards to Class A and Class B, i find this is a matter of choice. EVERYONE has the opportunity to get invovled and serve in different areas, which leads to further discipleship and so on.

    But for the people who choose not join ministries (Guest Services, Information, New People, etc) then how can they expect the discipleships everyone else receives.

    In a big church, you need to put yourself out there and get involved. You have to be responsible for your growth in God. It’s not up to anyone else.

    I’m sick of it being the “church’s” fault that somebody wasn’t chased down and discipled. It is each person’s responsibility to go after that.

    Could you imagine being in a church where EVERYONE was chased down and discipled whether they like it or not?

    There would be outrage at being too strict and the church is controlling people’s lives.

    Ultimately it comes down to you. If you want to be discipled – then get around the people that will take you the places you need to go. If you want to grow – get involved in the things that will take you there.

    it is not the Church’s Fault somebody decided not to get involved, not to be accountable with leadership and so on. It is the individual person.

    If people have so much trouble with Planetshakers, I don’t understand why they still attend. Surely if you were that unhappy and disliked it that much – you would go somewhere you were happier and able to grow alot more.

    And I say this as a person who at times has had incredible frustrations with Planetshakers, but knows beyond of a shadow of a doubt that this is where I am called to be. I have had to chase accountability, join ministries and serve wholeheartedly. And I can say now, that I am more responsible for my faith than I ever would’ve been, had I have had all of it handed to me on a silver platter like what is being described on here.

    TJ

    October 10, 2008 at 9:40 am

  12. Also.

    I can assure you- if you’re a member of an Urban Life. Pastoral Care Reports are filled out each week on each person. Contacts have to be made and accounted for.

    TJ

    October 10, 2008 at 9:42 am

  13. Hey Daniel,

    Good come back on my comments. Wow, no ones ever thought of the “before you criticise what they are doing” argument before.

    But back to the point. Who is really being impacted? and before you come back with another incredible retort try looking at these facts that came out yesterday in a report:

    “Pregnancy rates were much higher than the OECD average, and rates for indigenous Australians were the highest, the report found.

    Youth road deaths are the third highest in the OECD and indigenous young people have the second highest suicide rate behind Finland.

    Children of indigenous youths have the second highest infant mortality rate and recorded the lowest birth weights.

    More than 15 per cent of Australians aged 18-24 years claim to experience high or very high levels of psychological distress.

    Australia also performed poorly in the transition between education and employment, and family relationships.

    Head of the study, Professor Fiona Stanley, said the findings suggested government policy had failed children for many years.

    ‘If this was the Olympics, Australian’s would be horrified that we’ve failed to bring home a single gold,’ she said.”

    So to answer your question about what I’m doing. I actually lecture in these universities. No I dont go to Planet Shakers college. I spend day after day with young people who are so jaded with Christianity that you offer that they are out looking elsewhere for life. Try looking at a site called Scotteriology.com – it may open your eyes a bit. And try thinking – I hear that helps get rid of the bovine attitude.

    It’s a blog – get it. Dont get your planet shakers T shirt in a twist!!

    Time to turn down the music and open your bibles people!!!

    Awaiting the next glib comeback

    TOMM

    Tomm

    October 21, 2008 at 4:37 pm

  14. Hey Tomm,

    I have also seen Russ jump that fence over a Dog!

    Your assessments are spot on. Accurate, and sadly very amusing.

    The cast aside bit probably needs to be expanded on. Yes, when you have served your purpose, you are finished. But if you entrenched with them, and even worse, you start to question and shake your head at them, you too….. are finished!

    I mentioned on another blog, if you want to see the true focus of this mob, everyone should tithe through to the Salvation Army or World Vision for a month!

    THEN the true foundation of leadership will come to the surface.

    I asked several key players, when the Exodus from SA into Vic took place…. Why?

    “Melbourne doesn’t have a really big church and we are going to give it one”!

    And with this statement….. everything you wrote about began.

    Readers and attendees of this showbag…… please…. look at God… not his leaders…. not the Plasma screens or light show. Look at God.

    There are so many people who are hurting and need to feel His forgiveness and love. And you, me, US, we, will do a better job then this church by taking God’s commandments to your friends, family and church!

    As always…. if you don’t like the place…. Don’t complain…. Just leave!!!!

    SD

    On The Outside

    October 30, 2008 at 10:18 pm

  15. Hi all,

    Sure is a fascinating debate. For all the good work that the megachurches do, at the end of the day their biggest feeding ground is not the world. You can beat me up afterwards but there’s no other way I can say it… their biggest feeding ground is the local church.

    Many local churches (mine included, and mine’s AOG) are really struggling because the megachurches suck the life out of them, take their Bible college students, encourage their youth to join the megachurch… the little ones then think they have to copy the megachurch in order to succeed. BUT as Tomm so eloquently put it – look at the community – can we really say God has moved? Crime is up, suicide is so high, corruption and greed are growing… if God really does a supernatural work the WHOLE COMMUNITY will be changed, not just a few big churches grow while the rest of the churches suffer, and more importantly the unsaved remain unsaved.

    Please y’all pray for God to raise people that will pray, preach, weep, groan over the lost state of this country. Peace,

    Drew

    Drew

    October 31, 2008 at 11:38 am

  16. Hey all. i go to a small church in a town of about 3000 people n our church has about 150 people in it. churches like Shakers and Hills are great churches of influence and recourse for small churches like mine.

    however! i believe that there is a time to be your own church/self and take into account that we are not all worship leaders at planetshakers or the guy who takes out the trash each week at a small church of 150. but we ARE ALL called to be people of worship and people of spiritual gifts.

    In regards to ‘Planetshakers Insider’, i do believe that EVERYBODY posses a spiritual gift, wether it be a gift of worship, a gift of prayer, or even a massive gift like the ones of prophecy or healing. but none the less, we are ALL called to use them to the best of our ability for GODS glory….

    another thing i have come to realise from reading my bible is that if we pull something down, payin out, or bagging out (whichever terminology works best) anything! that may contain ONE born again christian, we are pulling down the kingdom of God. weather you agree with what these ‘mega churches’ or even what the ‘little anglican church on the corner’ may think. RESPECT THEM. HOLD THEM IN THE HIGHEST HONOUR. because God called us to LOVE one another not pull shreds of each other and ultimately; THE KINDOM OF GOD!

    4the1
    Uppy

    small church dude

    December 4, 2008 at 5:01 pm

  17. Hi all. I have read all the comments. It is sad that all of you can’t agree on one subject. So my question is how will you agree about God????? Get a life, build the Kingdom of God on earth and all the other things will fall into place!!

    J

    March 2, 2009 at 4:55 pm

  18. Hi all, I’m from Malaysia. I was searching for some music videos when i came across this. I’ll have to agree with J here. However, I do wish to add something.

    A Mega-church has it’s pro and cons. Disadvantages include monetary issues, member’s spiritual life, member’s being those from a another church, etc, etc, etc… You do not need to give me examples as there are mega churches here in Malaysia to, though not as huge as Hillsong or Planetshakers.

    However, sometimes, this is the church that certain types of people need. Because of it’s sheer size, it’s churches like this that are spoke persons and ambassadors to people in authority. It’s churches like this who can reach out in a large scale, because, frankly, some smaller churches are just stagnant, just living in their own comfortable place without reaching out to the people around them who need the Lord.

    Another point in issue is about the sheer accumulation of talent. Who is not impacted by the music of Mega-churches such as Lakewood, Hillsong, Planetshakers, Saddleback and the like? I do not need to elaborate further on this topic.

    To conclude, the body of the church, as human beings are, is not perfect. Besides, churches are made of us humankind, not buildings. So before we judge each other, let us focus only on building the Kingdom of God on earth. Nothing else is necessary. We need to build up people, not tear it down. Besides, what if a fellow believer who is weak in the faith sees this?

    TL

    March 12, 2009 at 1:57 am

  19. J & TL,

    ‘Building the kingdom of God’ does not mean increasing the number of people in the pews. It has nothing to do with the size or the influence of a church. It has nothing to do with Christians having enough clout to play golf with those in governments, business clubs, etc.

    ‘The kingdom of God’ is the reign of Christ in a man’s heart. To ‘build His kingdom’ is to see man being transformed to conformity with the image of Christ.

    And that precisely is our gripe with Planetshakers and Russell Evans and others of his ilk. The inordinately amount of resources spent on ‘churning the numbers’ rather than careful discipling of believers so that one may grow in holiness and maturity.

    The early church was very small in numbers and had no political or financial clout and yet it shook the core of the Roman-Greco world simply because the believers were discipled to the point where ‘the kingdom of God’ truly reigned in their hearts. They were torn apart by wild animals, suffered death by crucifixion, imprisoned and tortured, and yet did not flinch. Our Russell Evans with his ‘sheer accumulation of talent’ runs at the sight of a dog!

    The church is not a social club where we compete with one another to see who has the most recruits and whose recruits are the wealthiest and most influential in society. Remember Jesus’s example of ‘salt.’ We don’t need a lot of salt to impart flavour but salt must have its properties, otherwise it ceases to be salt and is fit only to be thrown out. Likewise, the church. Once we lose our characteristics of obedience to Christ, we’re useless. The Guglielmucci fiasco proved Planetshaker wasn’t salt, but something else. It was putrid and had to be thrown out.

    It is good for a weak believer to ‘see this.’ Then he might ask, where is Jesus Christ in all of this? Is Jesus Christ in Planetshaker or is it merely hype?
    Then he will either grow up or give up. If he gives up, then there’s only one conclusion to be made: the man was never in love with the Lord Jesus Christ but was infatuated with Guglielmucci/Planetshakers/Russell Evans.

    And, of course, we all agree idolatry is sin.

    heimi

    March 12, 2009 at 2:55 pm

  20. Heimi,

    I agree with our comment. We are here to build the Kingdom of God, not to build churches, buildings, funds and the like. Unfortunately, that is where churches all around the world, especially in developed countries like us fall short. I understand your gripe with these mega-churches as I am also dissatisfied with them and the way they expand their ministry (fyi, planetshakers content was banned in other AOG churches in Malaysia due to the ‘snatching of their youth’ plus, i’m not from any pentecostal church, but have many friends and brothers-in-Christ there). Unfortunately if only the church in these areas returns to it’s era of persecution, issues like this would inherently remain.

    However, i would personnally disagree with your last paragraph. The dropout rate of people who have been affected by fellow brothers-in-christ is exponentially high. It’s not that they have the wrong focus (i was nearly one of them), but it’s cause they are still weak and look up upon us for guidance. That is my stand. Even if we were to do this in a public forum/comments list like this, i feel it is absolutely necessary to explain this, at least to prevent misunderstanding, which is why weak believers fall after witnessing this (i shall not explain why they misunderstand our intentions in discussion).

    Regarding the accumulation of talent, I do not refer to single persons. I refer to the large numbers that they have, and the ‘cream of the crop’ that they put forward to lead some of their ministries (again, in regards to the accumulation of talent AS A GROUP), for example, the music ministry. They are not perfect, and neither are us. However, in the resources that they already put up to us, let us use it for the betterment for the kingdom of God. However, this also requires caution for the sake of fellow weak believers, to prevent them from falling or losing focus (remember 1 cor 8.13 in context).

    My leaving word to you guys are this. As you see this happening and disagree, what will you do about it? And also if you were Jesus instead, what will you do about it? I believe that His actions will not be limited to producing words like this. I believe there will be action. Thanks for hearing me. I understand our opinions might, and will differ at points, so my apologies if in anyway I am inaccurate and incorrect or have caused misunderstanding or even insulted you guys, for all of us are polishing each other for the Kingdom of God. Besides, I’m only 18. So I have alot to learn from you guys. In the meantime, in big things, let there be unity, in small things, let there be diversity, and in all things, charity.

    TL

    TL

    March 16, 2009 at 12:47 pm

  21. TL,

    You say those who dropped out ‘are still weak and look upon us for guidance.’ I say they’re not weak at all. They understand sin when they see it and are disgusted. They see hypocrisy, lies, fraud and sexual immorality. It repels them. It causes them to doubt the honesty and wisdom of those who have led them to partake of this Planetshaker phenomenon.

    You call them weak? They may be stronger than those who profess to be ‘mature Christians’ and yet are fooled by showmanship and stage antics.

    The Scriptures say Jesus is the author and perfecter of our faith. If there is even an ounce of faith in the hearts of those who have left, they will remain in Christ. They will seek Him because having been born again (if they are truly born again) they are now new creatures, no longer slaves to sin but slaves to the love of Christ. They are bound to Him and nothing can separate them from the love of God. Wherever they go, they will thirst after Him and they will seek Him and He will be found by them.

    It is simple why they left: they can no longer look upon us for guidance if we prove ourselves to be more depraved and foolish than the sinful, lost world. (And by ‘us,’ I mean those of us who have stood on the pulpit to blindly promote Planetshakers-Guglielmucci.) The more we try to cover up this stench, instead of repenting and turning back to God, the more we make ourselves unacceptable for ministry. Don’t mourn for those who reject us or walk away from us. They are not rejecting Jesus, they’re just rejecting Sin In The Camp.

    One thing is clear from this Planetshaker debacle: talent does not equate godly character.

    The next time a guy picks up a guitar and plays like Eric Clapton, I’m going to say this to myself: ‘Great, so you can pluck some strings. Now let’s have a look at your life. Let’s see if you truly love Jesus or you’re just a devil in disguise.’

    And you know what, the next time a brother picks up his guitar and doesn’t play too well and his voice is a bit wobbly, I’m gonna say, “It’s ok brother. Keep playing, keep singing. It’s not about the talent, it’s about a genuine heart that loves and obeys the Master.’

    Heimi

    March 24, 2009 at 12:53 pm

  22. Heimi,

    I agree that most ‘weak’ believers can come out much stronger from the PS debacle and our discussion. I have my ex-youth president redirecting her focus bacause of this scandal. In my opinion, there’s much to learn from each other, even if they are weaker in certain ways. I learnt that valuable lesson just early this year. However, i would repeat this: We must explain this so that other believers would not misunderstand.

    In fact, I would echo this sentiment: “They may be stronger than those who profess to be ‘mature Christians’ and yet are fooled by showmanship and stage antics”. I think that’s where some people who attend/supports Mega-churches come wrong. They make this churches as if it’s their God.

    My request is though is to allow space for this seemingly ‘great’ leaders to realize their faults from this scandal. It’s a problem where me and my dad (we are a medium-scale sound contractor catering mainly to churches in Malaysia) see Malaysia’s own share of Mega-churches fall – their leaders start to live on hype and make numbers and money their focus, not the well-being of their members. This is where i think it’s the trying time of large churches like this. It’s how they pull off from this. So all we can do for them is to pray and watch, and learn from their faults. Intercession is a tool largely missing from our churches today.

    Once again, sorry if my words are put together wrongly or if my words cause misunderstanding. After all, even looking through this comments, i was blessed by it. I now know how to approach my church youth when it comes to this. Some of them are shaken. All glory to God.

    TL

    TL

    March 26, 2009 at 12:34 am

  23. TL,

    May the Lord continue to provide for you and your family so that you will know no hunger no matter how trying the times. Amen to the ‘pray and watch and learn.’Since you seem to have a front seat to witness what’s going on in the megachurches in your country, may the Lord grant you an intercessor’s heart so that you may pray and be a blessing to the churches you come into contact with. God bless you, brother.

    Heimi

    March 26, 2009 at 11:18 am

  24. The church is inside us, not the monuments you see nowadays.

    You can have prayer/bible reading at a home, the “mega” church i belonged to had no pastoral care for years.

    Alot of people need good sound counselling and advice and of course prayers. They need to learn how to stand on their own two feet and have Jesus take their arm.

    I forsee this Mega church system failing if they don’t wake up, I do feel for them but its hard when you try and discuss these issues and they get defensive…

    megsychristian

    May 18, 2009 at 10:40 pm

  25. Hey guys, I just thought to share on some quick experiences I had been blessed to be a part of in Fiji.
    I went to preach at a Bible College (TIN SHED), with 1 light, 1 broken guitar and tropical rain pelting down. God hit the place, what I’m trying to get across is Christianity 101 of where 2 or more are gathered he is then in our midst, but not only that he lives in us. That night approx 150 people were there 30 of which were getting drenched in rain, 30 of which gave their lives to Christ. Honestly we need to get back to the heart of God, back into a personal relationship with God, we don’t need all these extra things to connect to God, it’s a religious mind set, all God wants is you. In someways these things can take our eyes off God and onto things, we need to re-caliberate and head for what God wants, not what the world wants. I believe that we need to be praying for all leaders as they go through some amazing challenges without the support they need. So just keep it in mind!
    God Bless

    Ps Joey Green

    October 9, 2009 at 1:42 am

  26. my goodness… please stop and listen to yourselves.
    what are u doing?
    Just stop, pray for peace of mind, seek the One who needs to be sought… ur just keeping the fire burning. YOU ARE NOT HELPING.
    Keep ur focus one the One who did so much for these people, including You.

    j

    January 18, 2011 at 9:44 pm


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